Just look what happened in Gaza where the Muslim Brotherhood offshoot Hamas was elected to office and proceeded to drown out all other voices, or Lebanon where Hezbollah has intimidated non-Islamist parties, including some Christians, into going along with the Iranian agenda. Or, of course, Iran, where a coalition was bullied out of power by the Islamists, subjugating generations to strict Islamic law and pushing women's rights back to the middle ages.
I have no doubt that many if not most of the people in Egypt initiating the protests against Mubarek were true democrats, who wanted an open, western-style political process, and who harbored no grand plans of the destruction of Israel. But those democrats will succumb to the hard line Islamists just at democratic people everywhere have faded when faced with Muslim Brotherhood-style forces.
There is a reason the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt has moderated (relatively speaking) its public agenda. For over 30 years the Egyptian government has kept its foot on the back of the Muslim Brotherhood to prevent it from growing, much as governments in Europe have kept their feet on the backs of neo-fascists.
The lack of Muslim Brotherhood power in Egypt does not reflect that the Muslim Brotherhood is not a threat, but rather, that the threat has been taken seriously by the Egyptian government.
For the Obama administration to treat the Muslim Brotherhood as just another secular and democratic player is profoundly ignorant and dangerous.
Now to the videotape:
These words, reportedly spoken by Mubarek to an Israeli official shortly before his resignation, may be prophetic:
"We see the democracy the United States spearheaded in Iran and with Hamas, in Gaza, and that's the fate of the Middle East .... They may be talking about democracy but they don't know what they're talking about and the result will be extremism and radical Islam."It doesn't need to be this way, and Mubarek bears much responsibility for not laying a foundation for a civil transition, but that doesn't make him wrong about the risk.
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Mubarek was a dictator and tyrant as was the Shah. And as with the Shah, what replaces him will be worse. Much worse.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, it's not "Willful ignorance". Dur Fuhrer knows exactly what he's doing. The Muslim Brotherhood is his ally, he wants to help them destroy western civilization. No one could be this stupid. Everything he does has the effect of emboldening the enemies of the west.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Mubarek bears a heavy responsibility in this, since he made promises to not become a dictator, yet did so for 30 years. When I view the video you have for today, and the pictures you showed of the Univ. of Cairo from that time period, the change for women, the society transformation, is shocking. The recently published survey numbers of what the people of Egypt claim to want - again, shocking. These people have been successfully brainwashed to believe that Islam is unable to survive unless all Western influence (and Jews and Christians) are eliminated. They don't know what horror their wishes will bring, because that reality/truth has been kept from them by the imams and Muslim community organizers like the Muslim Brotherhood. And dictators like Mubarek.
ReplyDeleteIsrael is not weak, and has lived with this threat all its short life, so the nation is no doubt preparing. However, the US role in this Islamization of the Middle East, and the brining about of a (dare I say it?!) Nazi-like caliphate, is heart breaking. The only hope, from what I've read, is that the Egyptian military will keep the Muslim Brotherhood in check, as they have in the past, since they are known to be assassins and liars. Let us hope the military means it about stepping down once the transition is complete. Two months until an election for president is a LONG time in the Middle East. And for community organizers.
Elections have consequences. Here and in Egypt. As you said in another post, we might not be able to survive even ONE term of this Obamanation.
"For the Obama administration to treat the Muslim Brotherhood as just another secular and democratic player is profoundly ignorant and dangerous."
ReplyDeleteRegarding some, even many, in that administration, this must be true. Regarding their boss, I offer that it is wishful thinking. He is on mission.
I am unconvinced there is congruence of process or result between Iran in 1978-79 and Egypt in 2010-11. I don't see details sufficiently to observe usefully regarding the same. It's in the office of an intuition at this time. I am looking for blow-back stateside.
We can all agree that Mubarak was a tyrant in the eyes of his people and deservedly so. And people here in the West cannot begin to imagine the hardships and travails of life in a country like Egypt or for that matter any Third World country, be it Egypt, Sudan or whatever. Too many of the citizens of the U.S., even if they were to look at it, are too busy whining about their own supposed problems to even consider what’s going on around the world. So be it. That’s what class warfare and the entitlement society have done to us.
ReplyDeleteHowever, as we look deeper into the Egyptian situation, we can see a rather disturbing pattern emerging. Listen to the talking heads of the MSM. Listen to the President and his out of touch administration, Hell, they can’t even get their stories straight. Hillary says one thing. Clapper says another. And the President openly welcomes the very element that can and will destroy Egypt and in turn put Israel and the West in dire straits. Of course I and many others will be called alarmists, racists or Anti-Muslim bigots for pointing this out, but it has to be said.
One only has to remember the Iran situation. Yes, the Shah as far as the people of Iran were concerned was a despot. As the people rallied there, the talking heads including our good buddy “lost in space Carter” went on and on about how the Ayatollah was in fact a moderate Muslim who would bring peace and open Democracy to the country. I distinctly remember the few brave souls who had done their homework and warned of the impending disaster that was coming. As it is now, they were branded as subversive or worse. The world sat back and we all know what has transpired since then.
As the Iran situation came to a head, the morons in the press and government here in the States put out the fallacy that the people of Iran, having grown use to the Freedoms they did have and their supposed love for all thing U.S. would in fact turn their back on radical Islamic fundamentalism and continue to embrace and expand the Western ideals to which they had grown accustomed to. Well, we all know how that worked out! Typical head in the sand gobbley goop from the West and presto!, an Islamic hell was born.
While one can hope the army there can keep the order and help transition to a free government, the chances of that happening in my view are slim at best. First, let’s take a look at the army. They have always been the power in Egypt since the overthrow of King Furuk. No secret there. Will they give up power?
As there is a vacuum in leadership right now can we assume the radical movements, those that any idiot can see are the best organized will in fact take their shots at power? You can bet your ass they will. The head of the Muslim Brotherhood is a known terrorist with a deep seated hatred for Israel. As we move forward, one has to assume they along with infiltrators from other radical Muslim states will do their best to install a Radical regime in Egypt.
It took about 30 days from the overthrow of the Shah, to the Ayatollah’s homecoming and then an almost instant plunge in radical Muslim horror that is now Iran. Is this what one wants for Egypt. And what about Israel? As we have a President who seems hell bent on hastening her destruction, will we come to the aid of Israel when the crap really hits the fan? If Egypt is taken over in the end by the radicals, will Israel survive? Hell, let’s not even go into the oil situation right now or the fact the Egypt controls the Suez Canal. At least Mubarak was honor bound to a treaty and kept too it. Can one even think for one moment that any radical function will not immediately turn on Israel?
Libs/progressives/pacifists can whine all they want about the US supporting "tyrants" but very often is a choice between a bad guy and a really bad guy. Or in the Muslim world, between a more modern, less fundamentalist Muslim leader and a REAL fundatmentalist, Sharia loving leader.
ReplyDeleteThat's why we have supported the likes of Mubarek. And it made and still makes, perfect sense.
Egypt has been there on the Nile for what, four or five thousand years. Have they ever had a constitutional, representative goverrnment. Answer: No. Prospects for this "revolution" turning out well? Not likely.
Actually, Mubarak was a victim of his own success much like the Shah of Iran. I saw a really good program on PBS of all places on the run up to the Iranian revolution and the last days of the Shah. It was done from the Feminist perspective and it lends some real insight as to why the Iranians let themselves be sucked into a theocratic type state.
ReplyDeleteThe parallels between Iran and Egypt are actually very close if you look at this from a social context. Egypt like Iran of it's time under the Shah is the most Western oriented of the M.E. with the resulting social stress that freedom brings. Freedom means individuals making choices for themselves that sometimes conflict with the traditional values one is use to living under. Divorce being one of those Western choices and also dysfunctions. Mubarak like the Shah allowed a secular state that resulted in a divergence between what is "legal" and what is socially "moral". You all heard the saying, just because it's legal doesn't mean it's moral. Many Muslims intensely dislike the "immorality" of the West, i.e. the legally sanctioned choices that morality based on religion calls dysfunctional. Think about why the Muslim Brotherhood is so popular with Muslims in general and Egyptians specifically.
I wrote about this: http://www.publiusforum.com/2010/01/02/obamas-foreign-policy-failure/
The Shah was overthrown because he confused modernization with Western values. The male dominated culture of Iran responded accordingly when their divorce rates rose and the Mullahs pointed the finger of guilt at the Shah for infecting Iran with Feminism. The Iranian people welcomed the Mullahs with open arms to save their culture. They in the end traded the social despotism of moral decline for religious political despotism.
Most instructive reading from an Iranian POV: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tehranbureau/2010/08/iran-and-the-two-faces-of-modernity.html
Also: http://web.presby.edu/womenworldlit/satrapi/Satrapi.html
Timeline of Iranian Government and Revolutionary Actions 1969-Current
1971-Muhammad Reza Shah celebrates 2,500 years of the empire at Persepolis.
1975- Economic turmoil begins after Soviet influence and the assist of the U.S. against the soviets. Inflation, Lower oil revunue, and a budget deficit.
1976- The Shah replaced the Islamic calendar, causing more anti-Islamic revolts.
1978- The Shah's police is in full force with such instances as killing of hundreds of protestors in Qom, Tabriz and other areas. The Shah institutes martial law.
1979- The Iranian Monarchy collapses due to the 1979 revolution. The Shah flees Iran. Khomeini returns and the Islamic Revolution begins. Khomeini unified country around constitution. The Islamic Republic was declared on April 1.
MB IN EGYPT HAS LONG BEEN TRYING TO APPEAR LIKE THE AKP OF TURKEY.
ReplyDeleteIT'S A MATTER OF HOW THEY WANT TO ACHIEVE ISLAMISM AND SHARIA AND NOT IF THEY WANT TO ACHIEVE IT.
So, William, your position is that you are not in favor of democracy when it is tried by brown people? AND, you support undemocratic, civil liberties violating policies like outlawing political parties, torture, and censorship when it's used on people you don't like?
ReplyDeletePersonally, I'm glad that the conservative fear of a jihadist under every bed has helped expose their latest authoritarianism. You would rather side with a dictator who murders and tortures his own people, than with people who want have a similar political system to yours? Wow. Good thing we invaded Iraq, helped cause several hundred thousand Iraqi deaths, and maim thousands of our soldiers, just so people like you could "bring democracy to the Middle East."
this is all part of Hussein obamas agenda from day one...
ReplyDelete