tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522121129844880066.post7125418829279929764..comments2023-10-24T11:23:31.580-04:00Comments on Le·gal In·sur·rec·tion: Anyone Who Praises The Pre-1947 Yankees Is RacistWilliam A. Jacobsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16433685588536441422noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522121129844880066.post-2216113166511536272010-12-28T16:56:50.520-05:002010-12-28T16:56:50.520-05:00Sigh. This conservative game of putting out provo...Sigh. This conservative game of putting out provocative statements then whining about people being provoked is really tiresome and transparent. I thought the GOP had acknowledged and renounced this "Southern strategy", but here it is alive and well. The gov of TX talking secession, the gov of VA ignoring slavery, the gov of MS praising the WCCs... Yeah nothing to see here. Pffft. The Southern strategy is alive and well.jrshipleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05991272871497674850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522121129844880066.post-81477259950075348882010-12-28T15:39:56.900-05:002010-12-28T15:39:56.900-05:00Well, the purpose of the 1947 Yankees was not to e...Well, the purpose of the 1947 Yankees was not to exclude blacks from its membership. It was to play baseball, and they didn't play baseball in order to further the objective of preventing blacks from playing baseball. <br /><br />The CC's, or the WCCs, as they were often called, were formed for the explicit purpose of fighting integration. Fighting integration was their baseball. They pushed out the Klan to advance the cause of fighting integration. Everything they did was to advance that purpose.<br /><br />So, that's a completely obvious distinction you are willfully ignoring in order to bash a bunch of lefties as race-baiters. But I understand that you don't care, and it's easier to pretend that its the lefties that have the problem. So have fun blowing on that hot little coal of self-righteousness. It is cold outside, after all!sthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05218111248726436361noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522121129844880066.post-61080201712770335212010-12-28T15:36:17.141-05:002010-12-28T15:36:17.141-05:00“Because the business community wouldn’t stand for...“Because the business community wouldn’t stand for it,” he said. “You heard of the Citizens Councils? Up north they think it was like the KKK. Where I come from it was an organization of town leaders. In Yazoo City they passed a resolution that said anybody who started a chapter of the Klan would get their ass run out of town. If you had a job, you’d lose it. If you had a store, they’d see nobody shopped there. We didn’t have a problem with the Klan in Yazoo City.”<br /><br />... That's the full quote from the Weekly Standard. If "affectionate" isn't an appropriate descriptor of Barbour's comments to the Standard's reporter, that's the fault of the Standard and not any of your bogeymen on the left. Specifically, Barbour notes that people "up north" thought the Citizens Councils were like a noted instrument of white supremacy, but he disagrees. It's telling that you quote Barbour's clarification in full in your update, but do not quote his original statement in full.<br /><br />In fact, your summary of his statement makes it sound as if Barbour had some passing familiarity with the Council. Instead, he's apparently familiar with a particular resolution and specifically cites the Council's boycotting techniques. As Yglesias and others have pointed out, the Citizens Councils (including Yazoo City's in particular) primarily used this technique to prevent anti-segregation organizing in their town and forestall court-ordered desegregation for a decade or more. In fact, I haven't seen any evidence that backs up Barbour's claims that boycotts were used against the KKK as well as supporters of the NAACP.<br /><br />All evidence points to Barbour having, at best, a twisted view of his city's Citizens Council... a view that I can only understand as being blinded by, well, affection.<br /><br />As far as your conspiracy theories go, you might consider how this comment made it into the Standard in the first place. Is it more likely that folks on the left are out to sink a nascent Barbour candidacy, or that folks within the Republican establishment are planting seeds to sink 2012 candidates? Why would the Standard publish such an obviously inaccurate and inflammatory comment? Surely the writer or an editor should've raised an eyebrow at this anecdote and done the small amount of research necessary to realize it's a good idea to ask Barbour to clarify his remarks.Zachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12034489870497625160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522121129844880066.post-4166030934573634132010-12-28T14:37:56.505-05:002010-12-28T14:37:56.505-05:00As far as I can tell, Mr. Jacobson is the one who ...As far as I can tell, Mr. Jacobson is the one who is making the claim that expressing affection for a white supremacist organization is synonymous with racism. What was the purpose of Barbour's comments if not to express some sort of admiration for the Citizen's Council? What was the purpose of the Citizen's Council if not for the promotion of white supremacy? If we're accepting Jacobson's definition of racism, then the shoe fits. The Coates/Yglesias argument seems to be more that Barbour's comments reflect a deep ignorance/indifference to issues of racial justice. The Jacobson argument, if actually applied to the comments, seems to be that Barbour is a racist.Aidanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16907388262600852146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522121129844880066.post-15506418319444795662010-12-27T20:47:13.375-05:002010-12-27T20:47:13.375-05:00Mr. Jacobson, you have been read:
http://www.theat...Mr. Jacobson, you have been read:<br />http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/12/its-not-that-youre-racist/68522/Janus Danielshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15253124365227852722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522121129844880066.post-36756650000920761702010-12-27T20:14:39.069-05:002010-12-27T20:14:39.069-05:00Any praise of the Yankees for any purpose is, as p...Any praise of the Yankees for any purpose is, as pointed out above, morally dubious. The only question anyone needs to ask about the Yankees is whether they are a metaphor for evil or the embodiment of evil.Alex Benskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669007254706796976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522121129844880066.post-74927476022705676182010-12-27T18:57:37.820-05:002010-12-27T18:57:37.820-05:00Actually, a lot of people came to dislike the 1947...Actually, a lot of people came to dislike the 1947 Yankees, at least the management, which continued to exclude Black players for another 8 years until they finally brought Elston Howard up to say. Also, there is a nuance here about Hayley Barbour's whole record and history, as documented in this very Weekly Standard Article; the story of how "Eastland Democrats" became "Goldwater and Nixon Republicans" who have supported policies for the last 35 years for the folks in the big house and left both the Blacks and the working class whites on the out in Mississippi. Yglesias point is not that Barbour is publicly the White Supremacist Racist that James Eastland, and to a lesser extent, John Stennis were, but that he continues that tradition in his current politics and policies, and that he is rather unempathetic to those outside the white tribe. <br /><br />And you are a fine one to complain about ad hominen argument when your whole onslaught against Yglesisias and DeLong is ad hominen.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13806405949833254677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522121129844880066.post-63758162237201099442010-12-27T18:17:15.899-05:002010-12-27T18:17:15.899-05:00"" But don't call him someone who ha..."" But don't call him someone who had "affection" for "white supremacist" organizations... ""<br /><br />Ummm, let's see.<br /><br />(a) Haley Barbour expressed admiration for the Citizens' Council. I don't think that is seriously in dispute, is it?<br /><br />(b) The Citizens' Council was a white supremacist organization, in the very simple sense that it was organized in order to uphold white supremacy against the NAACP and other "radical" organizations. (See the quote from Matt's original link, direct from the source: "The Citizens’ Council is the South’s answer to the mongrelizers. We will not be integrated. We are proud of our white blood and our white heritage of sixty centuries.") That was its mission, its very reason for existence. (The New York Yankees, by contrast, was and remains an organization dedicated to playing baseball.)<br /><br />(a) + (b) = Haley Barbour expressed admiration for an organization dedicated to white supremacy.<br /><br />I really don't see what your issue is with this characterization. It's sort of true on all counts.drwerewolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17269175252875799774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522121129844880066.post-19605893037739024872010-12-27T17:59:57.825-05:002010-12-27T17:59:57.825-05:00The most pervasive form of political correctness i...The most pervasive form of political correctness in today's US polity is the taboo against noticing that racism is or was racism. Yet those most politically correct (in this sense) most notice reverse racism. Funnily, they're invariably Republicans.Alphonsehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02441923856941011283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522121129844880066.post-77397633447537698202010-12-25T09:04:04.557-05:002010-12-25T09:04:04.557-05:00I find it amusing that so many here think Democrat...I find it amusing that so many here think Democrats and liberals (Venn diagram time) are "obsessed" with race. REPUBLICANS invented the southern strategy which was premised on stoking and fueling racism to garner votes for the Republican party. The same dogwhistles that were outlined then are still in play in the GOP now, despite an apology by Ken Mehlman for using racism to rally the base.<br /><br /><br />I also find it fascinating that so many infantilize blacks who vote Democratic as mindless drones who only do so because of a Democratic noise machine churning out unfounded racism cries.<br /><br />Black people in this country are very mindful of their history even if many others are not. They vote Democratic because they see the long line of racists, avowed and undercover, that seek safe haven in the GOP. Of course there are ignorant folks in the Democratic party, but last time I checked (a) Democratic politicians weren't hanging the flag of an army whose sole purpose was to prolong and defend white supremacy in their offices, or (b) attempting to tinker with the 14th amendment to the constitution, which undid the horror of Dred Scott.<br /><br />It is willful ignorance to pretend that the differences between the two parties on race are cosmetic. It is insulting to insinuate that blacks are unable to easily parse out those differences for themselves.<br /><br />(Oh, and to the person who said that the left belittled MLK....? I guess that's why Obama (the left's titular head) quotes him regularly? Come on.)Karen D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11857056914788168141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522121129844880066.post-17813085402251246652010-12-24T20:38:37.156-05:002010-12-24T20:38:37.156-05:00Other than recommending TNC's response to the ...Other than recommending TNC's response to the Professor, I would refer the good professor to Nicholas Lemann's book, <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=mjV9YQQ4_nAC&pg=PA260&lpg=PA260&dq=nicholas+lemann+columbia+redemption&source=bl&ots=ZvCQmz12H8&sig=bRCzyJ0oFsOdR9c-UX8607009IE&hl=en&ei=ZEkVTYeTD4P7lwfgpqjeCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=nicholas%20lemann%20columbia%20redemption&f=false" rel="nofollow">Redemption: The Last Battle of the Civil War</a> for some foundation.<br /><br />Foundation, I believe is also a legal term.<br /><br />I find that having some background on the topic at hand is helpful in matters such as this.Howard Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05396825505503915304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522121129844880066.post-60289682644011786262010-12-24T20:37:50.960-05:002010-12-24T20:37:50.960-05:00Way to argue which you are seeing in the midst of ...Way to argue which you are seeing in the midst of entering a discussion of the forest!<br /><br />Barbour's brother was the mayor AND joined the Republican party in 1965 after the Republican Party accepted a segregationist plank at its 1964 convention. Or, did you not know that?<br /><br />I'm not too scared to say he's an ignorant, corrupt corporate tool of plutocrats who will use "the Southern Strategy" more comfortably and more easily than you will leap to defend anyone with an "R" after his/her name.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11011323214352754508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522121129844880066.post-38673793285634794562010-12-24T19:11:13.812-05:002010-12-24T19:11:13.812-05:00Let's say Barbour had praised the Klan, instea...Let's say Barbour had praised the Klan, instead of the Citizen's Council. Would that have been indication of racist sentiments?<br /><br />Given that both the Klan and the Citizen's Council both existed with the <em>sole purpose</em> of furthering racial segregation, why do you come to a different conclusion about Barbour's enthusiasm for the Citizen's Council?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522121129844880066.post-89148997096213370412010-12-24T18:18:31.631-05:002010-12-24T18:18:31.631-05:00Gov. Barbour is quoted as saying:
“You heard of th...Gov. Barbour is quoted as saying:<br /><i>“You heard of the Citizens Councils? Up north they think it was like the KKK. Where I come from it was an organization of town leaders. In Yazoo City they passed a resolution that said anybody who started a chapter of the Klan would get their ass run out of town. If you had a job, you’d lose it. If you had a store, they’d see nobody shopped there. We didn’t have a problem with the Klan in Yazoo City.”</i><br /><br />Mr. Yglesias describes Barbour's statement as an expression of <i>"affection for the White Supremacist Citizens’ Council".</i><br /><br />Prof. Jacobson asks:<br /><i>"[Y]ou say that someone has an "affection" for a white supremacist organization, or shares such ideology, aren't you calling them a racist? That is the tactic I so despise in Yglesias' attack on Barbour."</i><br /><br />First, let me answer Prof. Jaconson's question. Mr. Yglesias's stated that Barbour has affection for the White Supremacist Citizens’ Council" because:<br />1) Barbour's words are a statement of affection for the Yazoo City Citizen's Council"<br />2) The Yazoo City Citizen's Council was a white supremacist organization.<br /><br />Mr. Yglesias has certainly posted strong evidence for the second, and the first flows from any reasonable reading of Barbour's words. Prof. Jacosbson does not dispute either part. Presumably Prof. Jacoson agrees with both, and that a skilled litigator (like Prof. Jacobson) would not pass up on the chance to challenge the factual accuracy of an assertion when doing so would support his position.<br /><br />Prof. Jacaobson's concern is that others will infer an accusation of racism from Mr. Yglesias's factually correct assertion. Prof. Jacobson "despises" Mr. Yglesias's "tactic" because Prof. Jacobson presumes Mr. Yglesias's intention was to evoke the connotation of racism.<br /><br />Prof. Jacoboson, of course, has no evidence that this was Mr. Yglesias's intent.<br /><br />Is Prof. Jacobson's tactic -- attacking Mr. Yglesias for an intention that Prof. Jacobson imputes without evidence -- one we should despise?<br /><br />Best,<br />Jim BalesJim Baleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09322487665818601057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522121129844880066.post-14833339173639035922010-12-24T17:26:38.414-05:002010-12-24T17:26:38.414-05:00Lordgodalmighty. Really?
The Yankees raison d...Lordgodalmighty. Really? <br /><br />The Yankees raison d'etre was to play baseball. Segregation and white supremacy were incidental to their primary purpose. <br /><br />The Citizens Councils' raison d'etre was to preserve segregation and white supremacy.<br /><br />Praising the former group implies support for baseball. Praising the latter implies support for their core policy goal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522121129844880066.post-53039267231530012342010-12-24T17:21:45.806-05:002010-12-24T17:21:45.806-05:00Look, this whole defense of Barbour turns on a rea...Look, this whole defense of Barbour turns on a really obtuse reading of what he said. He was asked how the schools integrated in Yazoo City without violence. The correct and honest answer was "local leaders favored economic and political intimidation of blacks over outright violence." But what he said was "see, we had these Councils that fought the KKK!" If that's not expressing admiration for the Citizens Councils, it's at least papering over their very ugly true character. Either way, it deserves calling out, and this automatic retreat to "he's calling him a racist!!!1" isn't helpful.dr lihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03160185154239327555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522121129844880066.post-61395744278905129822010-12-24T11:30:41.785-05:002010-12-24T11:30:41.785-05:00Am I off base by pointing out that:
1) Yglesias di...Am I off base by pointing out that:<br />1) Yglesias didn't call Barbour a "racist" and although it is convenient way to end a conversation by saying "Who you calling a racist?" it doesn't really move things forward.<br />2) Yglesias main point is that Barbour was whitewashing the history of the Citizen Councils (yes they were against violence, no they weren't pro integration)<br />3) Liberals aren't making this up, the reference to integration appeared in a hit job on Barbour in the Weekly Standard. Apparently the conservative Weekly Standard doesn't want Barbour to carry the Republican banner.<br />3) Barbour's actual words might be useful here, "Both Mr. Mott and Mr. Kelly had told me that Yazoo City was perhaps the only municipality in Mississippi that managed to integrate the schools without violence. I asked Haley Barbour why he thought that was so. <br /><br />“Because the business community wouldn’t stand for it,” he said. “You heard of the Citizens Councils? Up north they think it was like the KKK. Where I come from it was an organization of town leaders. In Yazoo City they passed a resolution that said anybody who started a chapter of the Klan would get their ass run out of town. If you had a job, you’d lose it. If you had a store, they’d see nobody shopped there. We didn’t have a problem with the Klan in Yazoo City.” <br /><br />That isn't affection? And Yglesias' point (not a small one) was that although Barber claims that the Citizen Council's would deploy the boycott tactic against KKK supporters, in fact the Yazoo City Citizen Council organized a boycott against black business owners who signed an integration petition.<br /><br />Reality should count for something.jon greenbaumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00554655997706813635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522121129844880066.post-51145023080947611232010-12-24T10:54:30.092-05:002010-12-24T10:54:30.092-05:00Your analogy is flawed.
While the Yankees operat...Your analogy is flawed. <br /><br />While the Yankees operated in a white supremacist milieu the Citizen Councils had one purpose - to stop integration and maintain white supremacy.<br /><br />Comparing the Yankees to the Citizen Councils is like comparing Ford Automotive to the Nazi's. One group was dedicated to eliminating my people. The other group was dedicated to making and selling cars and also happened to sell cars to the Nazis. I will buy a car from Ford now but I won't buy a car from a Nazi. <br /><br />There's a big difference.<br /><br />You're a professor? Of law? And law involves logic?jon greenbaumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00554655997706813635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522121129844880066.post-22752554380855590242010-12-22T10:28:19.330-05:002010-12-22T10:28:19.330-05:00Haley Barbour>: I just don’t remember it as bei...<b>Haley Barbour</b>>: <i>I just don’t remember it as being that bad. </i><br /><br />It’s not a crime to be young and ignorant. But it’s just not reasonable for a 63 year old person to still hold these views. Along with many others, he’s accepted the narrative that racism wasn’t all that bad, because he doesn’t want to face a painful truth.<br /><br />For Barbour to suggest that the Citizen's Council was a force of moderation was beyond the pale. The South has come a long way, but rewriting history doesn't help.Zachrielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11268229653808829377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522121129844880066.post-15250209538309393082010-12-21T16:53:55.468-05:002010-12-21T16:53:55.468-05:00Hmmmm, methinks something may smell fishy in MSM l...Hmmmm, methinks something may smell fishy in MSM land.....Yglesias dishing the "raaaacist" dirt and now our local McClatchy propaganda outlet The State is running a series of hit pieces on SC commemorating the secession from the United States...written by no other than Wayne Washington. Oh, and I am so sorry for Jim Clyburn's daughter Mignon. She was a huge radical during our days at the Univ. of SC where she and her Alpha Kappa Alpha "sustahs" kept the rabble-rousing going and going and going and going..........Scooter Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02895247292767105862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522121129844880066.post-21396696010839305472010-12-21T16:36:58.097-05:002010-12-21T16:36:58.097-05:00So Mr. Yglesias takes on Haley Barbour, but has no...So Mr. Yglesias takes on Haley Barbour, but has no comment whatsoever about <a href="http://getonthe.blogspot.com/2010/12/drive-bys_17.html" rel="nofollow">the unbelievably racist statements made by Chicago Democratic mayoral candidate Rev. James Meeks</a> within the last week (scroll down)? Figures...Omnibabehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05123362753225618655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522121129844880066.post-54675347181914679662010-12-21T15:53:18.781-05:002010-12-21T15:53:18.781-05:00The argument that it's a deliberate strategy o...The argument that it's a deliberate strategy of the Democrats to try to paint Republicans as racists would hold more water if prominent Republicans would stop praising white supremacist organizations without solicitation.<br /><br />If rising national stars in the GOP are going to continue arguing against the Civil Rights Act and in favor of the White Citizens' Council, how do you expect the Democratic Party to respond? I'm not saying Paul and Barbour were speaking on behalf of Republicans or conservatism, but if you make deeply ignorant and hurtful racial comments apropos of nothing, you're going to get some pushback. They weren't entrapped or backed into a corner to make these comments, they offered them willfully.Aidanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16907388262600852146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522121129844880066.post-8974680595813779262010-12-21T13:21:43.223-05:002010-12-21T13:21:43.223-05:00~
Democrats don't believe in the time arrow or...~<br />Democrats don't believe in the time arrow or accuracy; it's all about an air-brushed not even a nostalgic gauzy Then projected onto Now. <br />~<br />Only one problem: Then, there were mostly Jim Crow southern Dems who fought civil rights and some moderate Repubs who supported them. Now, it's the Progressive Democrats who are just as reactionary and determined to keep blacks in their place, I mean constituency pocket, by invoking the days of yore decades ago of a racist South that really weren't so clearly as black and white/ Democrat vs. Republican as they rewrite in order to indict history and discredit the present (Pubs-white man- western civ).<br />~<br />Meanwhile, the two Kings, ML and Rodney, who exhorted us to colorblind good character and to see the need for everybody to "just get along" are snubbed by today's Dems as hopelessly naive and politically self-sabotaging. <br />~<br />Progress (D) means we should keep picking old scabs to show someone's bleeding somewhere. Above all, never ever let time heal all wounds or admit there's a new insult to the body politic-- the new race industry.<br />~sort of runic rhymehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02110191531105638013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522121129844880066.post-90395629557058649532010-12-21T12:26:51.534-05:002010-12-21T12:26:51.534-05:00Yes, "Zachriel", Democrat party rhetoric...Yes, "Zachriel", Democrat party rhetoric can be quite ugly. We're all aware of that.Rob Crawfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03010767328260010949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522121129844880066.post-47191894198827017372010-12-21T12:25:54.785-05:002010-12-21T12:25:54.785-05:00"Democrats are obsessed with race for a ratio..."Democrats are obsessed with race for a rational reason."<br /><br />Because racial division and hatred has been the core of the Democrat party's power since Reconstruction. All they've done is shifted who they play for votes.Rob Crawfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03010767328260010949noreply@blogger.com